Pray 4 HealingWorldwide Day of Prayer for Healing and the Glory of God!

“Matt” has started “EfficacyofPrayer.com” and “Pray4PZ.com”. Is he mocking us, or serious?

I’m glad I left trackbacks enabled:

Does God listen to us? | Efficacy of Prayer said on 31-01-2010

[...] A friend emailed me about what could be an interesting experiment. I’ve added the link PRAY4PZ at the top, where you can read about this interesting [...]

Cute little site. “Matt” claims that he wants to:

gather information about the efficacy of prayer — from scientific studies, from the anecdotes of people joining the forum, from newspaper articles and newscasts — in one repository and encourage open discussion of that evidence.

Interesting, and I could see that being a useful site.

Oh, but then:

UPDATE: A friend emailed me about what could be an interesting experiment. I’ve added the link PRAY4PZ at the top, where you can read about this interesting development!

Interesting, indeed.

Why is it I expect a whole lot of God-mockery from that site?

After winning our poll, Dr. Myers wrote a blog post on the subject. He appears willing to be prayed for:

There was another poll out there that I studiously ignored, because I was on it: Which miracle do you think Americans would most support? One of the possible answers was “PZ Myers publicly converts from atheism to follow the One True God.”

I think it was a very poor choice, because one of the ways that could happen, which would require no miracle at all, is brain damage. Alas, I have won. Now I have to be a little concerned that devout Christians will be after me with a baseball bat.

So here’s an important caveat: traumatic brain injury or organic deterioration do not count. You’re going to have to convert me with reason, logic, and evidence in order for my conversion to count as a miracle. And trust me, since Christians don’t have any of those, it really would be a miracle.

Oh, wait. Is the One True God the Flying Spaghetti Monster, though? There’s a chance there.

Dr. Myers, first let me express my appreciation for not “Pharyngulating” the poll. It was the honest responses of people with an interest in this site and in the promotion of God. They really want to see you get Saved!

Neither Shirlee nor I have any desire to see you bludgeoned into submission with a baseball bat or other blunt instrument. (Well, I don’t, anyway!) I assume our poll respondents share our desire only to see the glory of God manifested in you, and to hear your future lectures on God’s love and wisdom and the beauty of His Creation.

I suggest we pick a date some months in the future, to allow people to learn of your impending conversion. Then, prayer teams can join in petitioning Jesus on that date for your salvation. I can’t wait to see your blog post on that glorious day!

Since God grants us free will — you do believe people have free will, don’t you? I know that some scientists think we are controlled by experiences and chemicals and such — I can’t expect He would force you to believe anything, nor would He want someone to damage your brain or drug you so you’d believe. No, He would provide a vision or other evidence which convinces you of His existence, so you come to Him of your own free will.

So, Dr. Myers, what’s a good day for you to find Jesus?

The miracle poll has reached 390 votes. We have a winner!

With a 21-point lead, PZ Myers’ conversion to following the One True God beats all others. (Except “Other”, but people didn’t leave their suggestions, so that’s not very helpful.)

#2 was healing of Stephen Hawking’s ALS, and #3 was Larry Flint regaining the ability to walk.

Now, we need to find out if Dr. Myers (I believe he has a Ph.D., yes?) is willing to have the faithful pray for his miraculous eye-opening conversion on a particular date and time.

And as for you people who voted for the Obama Psalm 109:8 thing . . . For shame, you should pray for his conversion, not for him to die and his children to be fatherless and destitute. Did you know that’s what you were voting for? Do you realize that’s what you’re asking for with those bumper stickers and t-shirts?

I just don’t understand how people who (claim to) know Jesus can be so hateful.

Of the miracles proposed thus far, these rise to the top.  Which one do you think most Americans would support?  Or do you think something else is better?  Vote in the poll!

(I know what you’re wondering.  “Why, dear Blessing, won’t the text wrap in this poll?”  If I knew, it would be wrapping, wouldn’t it?)

Vote. Comment. Share.

UPDATE: I see PZ Myers’ conversion is narrowly in the lead, followed closely by Stephen Hawking being cured, Osama bin Laden turning himself in (to what, I wonder? What’s that about, Blessing? That’d just prove he knew he was about to be caught!) and the pornographer walking again.

216 votes so far. I guess another day won’t hurt. – Shirlee

Who is Blessing, you ask?

Cruise through the older posts on the forum (which Shirlee STILL has to move; it’s at prayfortrig.com still).  You’ll see.

I’m one of many who tried to talk Shirlee into trying a somewhat less offensive approach to encouraging the salvation of souls.  Months ago I set up the “pray4healing” website.  It was very different from this, and geared toward helping people learn the value of prayer.

I got busy with other things, it didn’t go anywhere on its own.

Shirlee emailed me yesterday morning, frantic about her server crashing and “Internet cyberterrorists” attacking her and blogs insulting her and “just wanting to show God’s Majesty to the world”.  I told her she could use my domain name, if she gave me admin access and got off Trig.

She has.  So here I am.  And she’s a Christian woman, so I have no doubt she’ll keep her word.  (She still has admin access, too.)

I’ve been looking over the comments and there are some good ideas out there for a miracle.  I’ll set up a poll and see if the “right one” has been presented or if we need something else that people all over America (or the world) can get behind.

These are the commenter-proposed “miracles” so far. Do any stand out? Do you have a better idea? Please share your suggestions!

Are you new to Pray4Healing.com, formerly Pray4Trig.com? Please visit our Frequently Asked Questions page for some background on the site, including the name change!

First, WK restated our goals and criteria beautifully. Let’s review:

I think a miraculous display might be best, like god preventing the sun from setting for one night such as he did in joshua 10, but I understand how people can equate praying for a spectacle like that, to satan tempting jesus in matthew 4:1-11, and besides, he stopped doing those types of flashy miracles like a band that wants to forget they ever wrote their one hit song, so I doubt that a bunch of people requesting it will make him do it.

I also understand that you probably want to heal a public figure; someone reasonably well known to the average person.

First off, we should agree to exclude from our consideration anyone with an illness that although it rarely happens, can go away on its own, like cancer or leukemia.

Secondly, we should agree on what would constitute a miracle. If say, a person in a vegetative state with irreparable brain damage makes what appears to be deliberate actions, that’s not a miracle. A true miracle of course would be if the person permanently regained full consciousness without any cognitive problems, but I, and many others would accept at the very least, the subject being able to correctly answer 40 very simple yes/no questions by voice, squeezing, blinking, groaning, any sort of signal, given by an objective observer such as a doctor or nurse, with video evidence.

I’d like to add that the subject of the prayer should be willing to be prayed for, if the subject is an individual.

And now, the suggestions!
ds mama offers an idea:

What about the miracle of having each baby/child in every NICU/PICU across the country be perfectly healed of whatever illness or trauma they are suffering on the day of prayer?

It’s a wonderful idea, dsmama, and very compassionate. One problem: There is no single point/person for people to focus upon. It’s far too general and vague, and doesn’t involve someone people “know of”.

Harry Wortz (hopefully, not his real name . . .) suggests:

I pray that America wakes up before, Beck, Limbaugh, Palin, Jackson, Sharpton and Maddow turn our once great country into a true Idiocracy.

Interesting selection of lefties and righties. How would the “waking up” be measured and proven to be the work of God? (I agree that it would be a miracle!)

Matt Stafford, a Detroit Lions fan, says:

I’d like God to give me an offensive line. That’d be a miracle.

Indeed it would. But couldn’t nonbelievers dismiss that as the work of a skilled drafting of players or a better coach?

Greg Laden provides a truly tempting idea:

I would like to pray that PZ Myers, the Internet Atheist, becomes a True Believing Christian. Will everyone join me in this prayer?

I honestly love this idea. Imagine the good it would do the world if such an outspoken atheist came to Jesus! But how would we know his conversion was sincere?

Can someone suggest a way to figure that out?

Rich Wilson presents some logic on that subject:

So either the atheist is converted, and can’t lie about it, or the atheist is not converted, in which case lying and saying they were converted would serve no purpose.

Trouble is, lying and saying he was converted would serve the purpose of making God look foolish. God does not like to be made to look foolish; that’s why many countries have blasphemy laws, to protect Him from such things.

WK had a number of suggestions:

Professor Stephen Hawkings: Yes, he is an unbeliever, so he has that going against him, but he has an irreversible degenerative disease, and if cured he himself being an intelligent rational person would have to recognize the existence of an intercessory god. What better way for god to convert the scientifically minded than to heal one of their own? Proof of a miracle would be significant reversal of degeneration like renewed access of body functions, or being able to speak, not just a decrease in degeneration.

David Ring: He’s not exactly a celebrity but mister Ring is a christian preacher with cerebral palsy. If god would heal a very devout christian man of CP, it would surely convince many. Proof of miracle would be if his speech and motor skills improved to at least the average range.

Michael J Fox: He has been seen by many christians as an enemy of god for rallying for stem cell research, but if he was cured of Parkinson’s, he’d have to accept the belief that stem cell research is toying with the work of god. Proof of miracle would be a reversal in degeneration and occurrence of tremors.

Muhammad Ali: Healing a famous muslim might send out a message that allah is a false god, but others may get the idea that allah is indeed the same as god. It may [not] help christian islam relations a great deal, or convert many muslims but either way, it would convince those who don’t believe in god whatsoever. Proof of miracle would be the same as for Michael J Fox.

Random Atheist:

I would like to see God heal amputees.

Got one in mind?

Jim says:

I would love to [see] Charles Krauthammer healed. For Jesus to heal a man like him and let him walk would help this world in so many ways. Perhaps it is selfish of me to want this, but maybe then he would accept Jesus and also do more of his good work.

Erik suggests:

If god exists have him strike me down with lightning.

Suggesting this could be seen as inciting to violence, Erik. I don’t think I can do that legally.

Grimmlock's God Detector

Finally, Grimmlock suggests:

pray that God moves my “Yo! God” God detector.

Now, that’s just being silly.

Got any favorites? Better ideas? Let’s hear them!

Did I miss any? Point them out!

Visitors:

I’m asking for your help.

As is noted in the FAQ, we’ve found that attempting to gather prayers for young Mr. Palin has accomplished little beyond gathering a collection of people who hate the Lord.

So, we’ve changed the name of the site to Pray4Healing.com.

This world needs a miracle, folks. Like no time in its history. The economy of nearly every nation is a disaster. Diseases run rampant. People are miserable, and turning from God every day.

Some turn to witchcraft, others to hedonism, still others to cults or the worship of “science”.

Yes, the world needs a miracle.

But it must not be a human-caused “miracle”. For example, “Pray that a million people donate $15 to Haiti relief today.” That’s a measurable and provable event, for sure . . . and a wonderful thing to occur! But it’s not a miracle; it’s people making a conscious, generous, and loving choice.

For God to force people to do such a thing would violate their free will.

The miracle must be something which can turn the hardest-hearted atheist to the Lord, helping bring us as a nation and as a planet back to He who made us.

It has to be something only God can do.

The idea we started out with met those criteria, but it only caused hatred and discontent. We played straight into Satan’s hands, and probably turned more people from the Lord.

Can you suggest something that will bring about a unified prayerful response? Something that even God-mockers will agree is a worthy cause for everyone to support?

Suggest away, we’re all ears!

Dear Friends:

Earlier today, we experienced a DDoS attack which crashed our server.

We received an email routed through an anonymous IP taking responsibility for it minutes before it occurred.

The vandal informed us that he (she?) was offended by our “vicious attack on Trig Palin”.

We, of course, have no interest in attacking Trig Palin, but in helping him. However, our first and foremost goal is to help people learn about God’s Majesty.

Therefore, we have decided to change the site name to pray4healing.com, effective as soon as the change can be processed. The site may be down for a brief period.

We will ask you, the users, to work together to come up with a specific and measurable goal for which we can all pray to demonstrate God’s awesome power, which will not result in attacks by vicious Internet thugs.

The forum at http://www.prayfortrig.com/forum/ is on a separate domain and will remain up during the website’s brief down-time.

We apologize for any inconvenience.

UPDATE: Had I not prayed before the conversion, I’d have been quite surprised at how smoothly that went. Conversion is complete.

Welcome to Pray4Healing.com! Please have a look at our Frequently Asked Questions!

Dear Latecomers:

-Blessing
February 2010

Poster Atheist 4 Life asked a few questions. Here we go:

When you have a moment, could you please pray for a cure for my porn addiction?

Certainly. Shall I pray for you to go blind, for your hands to fall off, or for you to find Jesus and quit your unending heathen lust after pleasures of (your own, mister grabby-hands) flesh?

Also could you explain the existence of dinosaurs millions of years ago when many christians claim that the earth is only a few thousand years old. Also, if you claim that dinosaur fossils are mearly a way of God testing your faith, do you really want to to worship a God that tests your faith by playing such pranks on you?

I’m glad you could spell “atheist” properly, even if “merely” was too much for you.

EDIT: OK, I admit it, that was a cheap shot. I was a bit cranky, having just cleaned up after a DDoS attack. Consider it retracted.

God didn’t play any pranks on us. Dinosaurs were killed in the Flood buried under many layers of sediment in a matter of days and compressed under water deep enough to cover all the mountains of the Earth. That’s MILES of water. Incredible pressure. That’s how they became fossilized.

And why is it that the high church does not come out and condemn looney religious fanatics like Pat Robertson for his obscene comments about Haiti being punished for signing a contract with the devil to remove the French from their country.

High Church? What, the Catholic Cult?

Do you mean the people who worship “Mary” and actually believe that crackers and wine turn into the flesh and blood of Jesus?

Tell me, if Haitians didn’t make a pact with Satan to remove the French from Haiti, why did God allow the earthquake to happen?

I apologize for going off topic here, have nothing personal against Trig but for your Gods sake please concentrate on actually accomplishing something that will really do somebody some good in this world instead of chanting voodoo prayers for someone who really doesn’t need them.

Well, you did ask me to pray for a cure for your porn addiction. Do you think that’s more important than Trig being able to live a normal life, with all the joys and opportunities it offers?

Dear Latecomers:

-Blessing
February 2010

One commenter brings up “free will” as the reason God will not heal Trig Palin.

I am the mother of a 14 year old teen who happens to have Down syndrome. I would YES change her Down syndrome if I could, for her sake. [See http://beneaththewings.blogspot.com/2008/03/i-wouldnt-change-her-if-i-could.html for further explanations. Don't skip the comments.]

I also believe that theoretically G-d can “cure” Trig.
But it won’t happen. G-d wants free choice, and if he would cure trig, such a public figure, etc, HE would effectively be limiting our free choice.

I assume that you believe that God must remain hidden. He cannot assert Himself, because then people would believe based on evidence, rather than based on what other people tell them.

Yes?

Tell me, when God sent angels to visit Lot in Sodom, was that remaining hidden, or did He invalidate Lot’s free will?

When God walked with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, was He remaining hidden, or did He invalidate their free will?

When Jesus performed very public miracles, was He remaining hidden, or did He invalidate the free will of the 5,000 people fed in the miracle of the loaves and fishes, or of witnesses to His other miracles?

When God parted the Red Sea during the Exodus, did that invalidate the free will of the Jews?

This has been posted to the discussion forum, as well.